Layer 8

Security is fundamentally about people, and everything we know about people is relevant to security. -- B. Schneier

From the other side of the hiring desk ...

Ax0n posted an open letter from geeks to IT recruiters and hiring managers that I found myself highly conflicted about.  As a geek AND a hiring manager, I’ll put my own spin on what he wrote:

Try to measure productivity in output, not in hours.

Geeks automate. Geeks script. Geeks compile. They summon computing power to get things done quickly on their behalf. If your geek seemingly spends all day on Twitter and Fark but somehow manages to still complete tasks ahead of schedule, your geek is multi-tasking. This is normal.

Yes, this is true, but appearances still do count.  If other members of the team who don’t understand this think that I’m just giving a geek a pass on goofing off because every time they walk by, they see them watching something on YouTube, I have to do something about it.  Even more, if my BOSS or HIS BOSS walk by and think the same thing, I have to do something about it.  I’m responsible for morale in the team as well as the output.

Assign tasks to the geeks who are most interested in them, not the ones with the most experience.

I’m sorry, but my job is to make sure the tasks get done as well as possible.  If that means giving it to the most experienced geek because I think she’ll be the best executer of the task, then so be it.  I care about your geeky interests, but not enough to override quality.  Sometimes you get boring tasks handed to you.  Deal with them.  I know I do, every day.

Segregate the corporate, compensatory hierarchy from the leadership hierarchy.

  With a team of geeks under you, one or more will eventually become to go-to guy (or girl) for certain things. You don’t usually need to assign a “team lead” - Through meritocracy, the Alpha Geek will emerge. That Alpha Geek may lack seniority, but will have the most influence. It’s best to let this occur naturally. It’s awkward when the one who best fits the role has to answer to someone else just because they’ve been around longer. Furthermore, the members of your team will still go to the Alpha Geek because the wrong person has the “Team Lead” label. As Paul Glen puts it: Geeks don’t hate hierarchy. They hate your hierarchy.

This really depends on what the “leadership” is for.  I have geeks who are the “go-to” people for technical issues, but I would never trust them with a schedule, resolving interpersonal conflicts, talking to the business, or with managing other people.  Got news for you:  you’re part of the corporation whether you like it or not.  You don’t have to like the hierarchy, but in most cases it’s there for a reason.  Deal with it.  If I find a natural-born leader in all aspects, I am more than happy to recognize that with an official appointment, but there are many dynamics going on in a team and department, and I have to manage them all, not just the geek tribal ones.

Have all screening and profile “paperwork” in one comprehensive online wizard or form.

  Geeks do not like pens, pencils, or clip boards. We also despise giving you the same piece of information more than once on fifteen different sheets of paper. We’d rather not be sitting on an uncomfortable chair in a room that’s far too brightly lit just so that we can give you the information that you want. It’s easy to get the information to you electronically.

Get over yourselves.  Sometimes the forms aren’t under our control (hello?  government?).  You want the job?  Don’t get all prima donna over a form.  I will drop your name from the hiring list sooooo fast, because it means you’ll get prima donna over the work I give you, too.  There are plenty of other geeks out there who have a better sense of perspective AND the same talent and skillz that you have.

Only ask for information you need to make a hiring decision.

  W2’s, Direct deposit information, full fingerprints, home address and all that crap can be handled during orientation. The only personally identifiable information you need before hiring is a name.

Again, that’s not always true.  Home address, SSN etc. are often required before you can send out an offer letter.  Fingerprints are needed if you’re requiring a background check. 

Don’t grill us on our resume and work history.

  You don’t hire a geek for what he or she did two years ago. You hire them for what they will be able to do for you now and in the future.

Excuse me, but this is bullshit.  I’ll grill you on ANY part of your work history and qualifications that will help me decide whether you can do the job I need you to do NOW.  In fact, I’ll often take a chance on someone BECAUSE of things they did ten years ago, not what they’re doing in their current position.

Instead of asking about skills that qualify them for the position, ask about their interest in the kind of work they think they’ll be doing.

Again, I care about your interest, but not as much as I care about whether you can do the JOB.  I ask all sorts of questions, and often throw in things that will make you talk about something that interests you (and I’ll be able to tell), but I’m still going to ask about skills too.

In short, if you’ve ever actually BEEN a successful hiring or recruiting manager, I’ll be happy to listen to what you have to say, but advice from someone who’s never done it is probably as irritating to you as it is to me.

Posted by shrdlu on Wednesday, January 07, 2009
(10) CommentsPermalink blogmarks Favicon del.icio.us Favicon Digg Favicon Fark Favicon Furl Favicon Google Bookmarks Favicon StumbleUpon Favicon Technorati Favicon TailRank Favicon

Comments

Glenn United States on 01/07  at  12:41 PM:

Hehe, big LOL on that one and I agree with your positions. I used to do technical interviews for IT positions and loved the lists of things people said they were proficient in. Asking about specifics on sample line items tells you right away if they have embellished or outright lied. It also gives you an idea of how technical they really are (did they just act as an operator or were they the primary sysadmin). I also tended to ask if they ever worked on their own car for 2 reasons. See how they handle the unexpected question that seems to have no bearing on the job and also to see if they have natural troubleshooting skills. I find it easier to teach a person an OS and opposed to troubleshooting.

LonerVamp United States on 01/07  at  03:59 PM:

I’ll probably be a bit less nice than you, but I fully agree with your points. The whole section on pre-hiring and screening seems amazingly self-centered and pretentious. It says a lot about someone when they get annoyed about someone’s hiring/interviewing process. God forbid it doesn’t go exactly as it “should” in one person’s eyes. I think that reflects more on the ego or lack of adaptability of the hired as opposed to the attitude/organization of the hiring company/boss.

I understand where Ax0n is coming from, and in some points I agree. It is a weird place to be that bridge between the geek side and the typical business side.

Hell, now you have me going…

shrdlu United States on 01/07  at  05:35 PM:

This is not to say that I don’t appreciate the geek perspective, mind you.  I hate the forms and the “tell us about your Java experience” stuff too.  Wherever possible, I try to cater to my geeks, and I think I do a pretty good job because I’ve convinced more than one to take a pay cut to come work for me. wink

WadeW United States on 01/09  at  07:39 AM:

I can see validity in both Ax0n and shrdlu’s points, but at the end of the day, it’s how both the geek and hiring manager feel about each other. Yes, the geek’s got the skills that the hiring manager needs, but as shrdlu pointed out, what’s the point in the skills if you can’t operate in a team dynamic. One thing that hasn’t really been touched on is the impact that the hiring manager can have on recruiting good people. If a good and technical hiring manager heads up the interview, the geek will likely feel good about joining the company and working with and for smart people. On the other hand, if the hiring manager is too “manager” and not enough geek, the the geek might feel less compelled to work for that company…after all, geeks want to surround themselves with smart, like minded people…no one wants to work for a bone head that doesn’t understand what they do.

shrdlu United States on 01/09  at  09:05 AM:

Wade, you’re absolutely right—the interview is also an opportunity for the company to “sell itself” to the candidate.  The hiring manager had better be wary of coming across as a Pointy-Haired Boss.  I really like Joel Spolsky’s views on the matter:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html

When I found a candidate that I really wanted, I would sometimes even get my boss’s boss to come in and make a pitch at the end of the interview.  That really impresses the right candidates since it demonstrates upper management’s commitment to security too.

WadeW United States on 01/09  at  11:31 AM:

shrdlu. I guess I don’t really get to the trying to sell the team/company to candidates…for the most part, it’s the finding of the right candidate that seems to pose the most problems. Just as Spolsky states, there are often candidates that are a good partial fit, but I end up suggesting we turn them loose because they don’t have dev experience or too narrow of a focus in a given field of IT Security (I’m typically looking for a tool building security assurance engineer). Maybe I’m just too picky about candidates, maybe there’s a serious lack of talent out there, not sure.

shrdlu United States on 01/09  at  11:37 AM:

Not necessarily.  It’s the difference between recruiting and selection.  The first step is to encourage the right people to apply for the position; the second step is selecting the best candidate.  If you find a really good candidate, chances are that she’s going to have more than one potential job offer competing with yours.  Sometimes it can be hard even to get ANY qualified applications for a position unless you actively beat the bushes and ping everyone you know.  If you’re just sitting there waiting for candidates, and you’re not getting any good ones, then you’re only doing half your job as a hiring manager.

WadeW United States on 01/09  at  11:42 AM:

Yeah, I really just need to expand my network so that I can get good responses when I do ping people with “know anyone that might fit this job description”. In the last round, I was hoping that Twitter might be a good avenue, but unfortunately, it wasn’t…luckily, one of my old team mates was looking for an opportunity to come back.

Tom United States on 01/28  at  04:53 PM:

As a geek who now is a hiring manager for geeks, I respect both viewpoints, but ultimately its my butt on the line and I have to balance out the needs of the company with the culture of the geeks.  Ideally, the geeks will understand why there is some structure required by the business and the business processes will not be unnecessarily bureaucratic.

ax0n United States on 02/05  at  03:54 PM:

Wow, how’d I miss this one?

I can definitely see some things from your side. As you can imagine, I was feeling ranty and argumentative when I wrote that. Mostly due to some of the woes a few of my friends are having in this economy. Most are geeks, some are hiring managers.

Like anything, the way stuff really works is somewhere between the Geektopia I described and the Beige catbert-hell cubicle maze that is the bane of everyone’s existence.  It varies widely depending on where you go.

I can say that I’ve thanked my interviewers for their time and bailed out of interviews before when it became blatantly obvious that the culture would kill me. It sounds like you’re awfully familiar with cultures I’d opt to not participate in. raspberry

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